The Ashcan

Simon and Jef vs. Scott Pilgrim’s Finest Hour

Posted on 13. Aug, 2010 by theashcan in comics

Simon: Did you like it?

Jef: I didn’t dislike it!

Simon: I feel the same way, haha.

I’m settling for this ending!

Jef: Was there something specific missing for you?

Simon: I think there were a few things.

For one, I’m not a huge comic guy

but the art seems…. off to me?

I looked over all the books

and I realized my issue is, the art is TOO GOOD.

Is that crazy?

They drew it too nicely I thought.

Jef: That sounds like definite crazy talk to me.

Simon: hahaha

I think the whole “I made this book in my bedroom and will sell it to you on Etsy” aesthetic was part of its appeal for me.

Jef: HAhahahahah

Simon: But, although you see his art evolve through the series

book six is too clean

too perfect.

It’s GOOD.

It’s just not the same.

Jef: Yeah see, that’s what I was thinking when I was finished, but opposite — that his art has evolved so much and it’s been great to see him grow.

But I guess I can see what you’re saying.

Simon: It’s like, hearing a demo tape

and falling in love with it

and then hearing the produced album.

The songs are still awesome

but there’s something different.

Jef: That’s the thing: taking 6 years to work on a giant project about the indie scene, and millions of books sold later and by the end you’re not really indie anymore.

He can’t NOT grow in 6 years. But it does affect the series, yeah.

Simon: Yeah, I don’t want to pull a Weezer and hate his success. I enjoyed seeing him grow. It just definitely doesn’t look indie.

Jef: Okay yeah, I gotcha on the art front.

What did you think storywise?

Simon: Enh

I didn’t hate it

Jef: Hahahahha that sound! Enh.

Simon: I think my expectations were high.

It was a pretty good ending.

It felt a little forced.

Jef: The extreme video-gameness of the ending was kind of a nice callback to the earlier volumes, but still, after easing up on all that to concentrate on characters in vol 5. … it felt a bit weird here.

Simon: It was a giant fight scene, no?

Jef: It was.

Which if you told me was going to be the ending after reading Vol 1, I would have been like AWESOME SHIT.

But after where the series has gone where it’s gone, I’m not sure I dug it that much.

Simon: Yes.

I enjoyed that they kill Gideon with a Chrono Trigger reference.

Jef: lool

Simon: But my favourite book was probably 4, which didn’t have that much fighting.

Jef: Yeah same with me and 5.

Simon: Are we just emo?

Jef: HA.

They did happen to sneak some nice character moments in 6 though.

Simon: Do tell!

Jef: I think Scott vs. Scott was kind of an obvious development, but Scott facing his own league of exes was kind of a nice, mature realization for him.

Scott’s problem as a protagonist has always been that he’s so passive and self-centered and un-self-aware. He made some ground on that in the 6th volume and that is something I needed in order to give a shit where he ends up.

Simon: That was almost lost in the shuffle

but a great point.

Plus Gideon having his own league of exes on ice gives us context for how people actually all have the same general issues.

Although, that was random as shit.

Jef: Hahaha it was random yeah, but kind of cool how it re-organized the way we thought of the Scott Pilgrim universe.

It’s not totally obsessed with Ramona and her past — everyone has their own baggage they carry around.

Simon: Yes, and the little bit of character development that did happen is kind of a bittersweet but appropriate ending I thought.

I mean, I enjoy the book because it’s fun.

Scott lives this carefree life –

everyone wants to punch it in the face because he has it so easy.

But in the end, do you really want to be him anymore?

Having to own up to your own flaws?

He’s too much like a real person. Which, as you said, is necessary. But also stings a bit.

Jef: It’s been crazy how our generation has latched on to him.

Simon: Toronto particularly, for obvs reasons.

Jef: He’s on, like, Harry Potter levels here, as much as that can be for us and comics.

But that might even be why Vol 6 missed a bit for me…

I think by this time yeah I’ve stopped relating to Scott.

And to have the book revert to that “kewl video games!” vibe for the finale felt almost false.

But maybe that’s just me wanting too much out of the book.

Simon: Yes.

No, I agree.

Like I said, they snuck the character development in there.

But, god. Too much trying to go on at once.

There aren’t any panels where you really appreciate and dwell on the moment in this book.

Jef: The pace for the finale was summed up nicely by the new band’s name, “Shatterband.”

Simon: I didn’t totally understand why they were even fighting Gideon at some points.

Jef: You mean because Scott wasn’t even with Ramona anymore?

Simon: Gideon wasn’t with her either!

She was at her dad’s.

Jef: Oh right: Gideon tries to recruit Scott as one of Ramona’s evil exes; Scott refuses, and Gideon stabs the shit out of him.

Or are you talking about something else altogether?

Simon: Ah yes, no that’s it hahaha.

Jef: Scott dies and he meets Ramona but then he remembers he has a 1-up saved.

Simon: It’s true.

I think my problem is I really enjoy this book when NOTHING is going on.

When there’s actual shit going down, I kind of tune out.

I like the parts where people are just talking, or hanging out.

Jef: Yeah, the awkward conversations and shit.

Simon: Because they’re at PIZZA PIZZA

Jef: Hahaha yeah.

Simon: and, of course, Second Cup.

Do you know if he had the ending in mind all along, or he was just making it up as he went?

Jef: It FEELS like he had an ending planned. That would explain all the callbacks in tone in this volume.

Simon: The Stephen Stills being gay thing was definitely a great reveal.

Better than Dumbeldore

or the Sixth Sense.

Jef: Haha both great outings, yes.

Oh man imagine that was the ending of the 6th Sense?

Simon: That’s he’s gay, or that he’s a gay ghost?

Jef: I guess it would have to be both.

Simon: Spoiler alert!

Jef: Lol

Did you like the makeout session with Knives?

“But it was horrible for everyone, and that includes you.”

Simon: She matured so fast.

Like, right away she’s a different person in this book

Jef: Yeah I agree, not all the side characters had a smooth ride.

Some of them straight up disappear and then reappear out of nowhere to be in the conclusion.

Simon: cough *Julie* cough

Jef: Haha yeah.

And so I guess Knives had to logically grow up, but yeah, we didn’t see it happen really.

Simon: I thought the Knives thing was funny in that, I actually didn’t even realize she wasn’t legal.

Jef: Haha forreal?

Simon: That didn’t even occur to me until they made a point of it.

Jef: Keep Simon away from your daughters.

Simon: Hahahaha

I was like…. oh yea!

Light bulb.

Jef: Scott really is a scumbag when you think about it.

Simon: But because he plays ignorant

you can’t hate him.

Jef: Yeah, I totally don’t hate him.

Which I guess is the same for me with some of my friends.

Simon: His naivety is really his appeal.

He’s like, the anti-Holden Caulfield.

Jef: Right, and we’re all sick of that Holden asshole.

Simon: Yet they’re both assholes, haha.

Jef: Haha yeah. Hey I know you saw the movie — without going in to spoilers, was there an ending you preferred?

Simon: No.

I didn’t mind either

but I didn’t really enjoy either… either.

Jef: Hmm.

Simon: I think the movie was kind of in a tough spot.

There’s just too much to squeeze into two hours.

Especially when, as we said, the strong point of the series is the characters.

Jef: Yeah I wonder why they didn’t try to split it up into at least two flicks.

Simon: Where do you put the series as a whole now that’s done?

Any lasting impressions?

Jef: I think it’s definitely one of the most important comics of the decade. The ending doesn’t really change that for me. But how much of that is for the actual work or how much it accomplished, I’m not sure yet.

Simon: In what way?

I’m curious because you’re really a comic guy

So your opinion is interesting to me, who, essentially just likes cool things to look at.

Jef: Any way you slice it, this is GOOD comics.

Simon: What was it about this book that made it so popular?

Jef: I think anything this good catches on on some level, eventually, in the internet age. What pushed it skyhigh like it’s gone though?

It was so fucking zeitgeisty — the manga + the video games + the indie bands + the manic pixie chick…

Simon: Yes.

That’s exactly the word I had in my head.

It captured the spirit of the times. In Toronto. For our generation. Like nothing I’ve ever seen.

Jef: Definitely. And it did it in a way that wasn’t annoying or cloying or pretentious.

The series could have easily been hipper-than-thou, but it wasn’t.

Simon: Not taking itself too seriously almost made the ending kind of unsatisfying, ironically.

But yes, the last book doesn’t take away from the first 5.

Jef: I think what saves the series is its manga influence — if O’Malley was just influenced by Daniel Clowes or whatever, this would be suckfest.

But like you said, the crazy manga influence also kinda constrained how I engaged with the ending.

Simon: I take for granted I am familiar with manga at all.

I assume everyone is, but then I remember I’m Asian.

Jef: Haha well, I think if Scott was drawn in another style he would look like such a douche.

Simon: Yes.

He would look like Shaggy from Scoobydoo.

Jef: All the hipster beards would be unbearable.

Simon: How does he get all these girls anyways?!

Maybe I can get all these girls.

I just need to be able to fight giant robots.

Which I’ve been training my whole life for anyways.

Jef: Simon Yau’s Finest Hour!

Simon: This is nitpicky:

I didn’t like his haircut in this book

Jef: Hahaha was it different?

I didn’t even notice?

Simon: I know, I’m nuts, hahaha.

He used to have flattened-down hair.

It was all Dragonball Z and shit in this.

Jef: Simon Yau’s Nitpickiest Hour.

Simon: I don’t know how to end this, haha.

Jef: Haha neither do I.

Let’s just strike a pose with these swords.

Simon: Comic book analysis +5.

Jef: Haha there, it’s over.

Tags: assholes, Bryan Lee O'Malley, comics, featured, graphic novels, manga, reviews, Scott Pilgrim's finest hour, this isn't about the movie, Volume 6